Facilities Discussion Online and In Person

Please feel free to comment in any way that you want, but the following questions might be helpful in sparking conversation.

Do 1 or 2 options seem better than the others?  Why?

Which option would you be most excited about?  Why?

What values or priorities might be communicated in each option?

Which option most fits Riverside's unique qualities?  Why?

These are great questions!  I'll definitely be in prayer as discussions happen and conclusions get reached.  I believe God is at work in this process and its resolution!

I found the numbers John Umbeck shared on the land options encouraging in that it seems that we would be getting the land on the Cumberland extension at an excellent price given what similar pieces are going for in the area.  I think it is an excellent option.  So, this could make possible, in the future, a larger facility without the parking constrictions and room constrictions we seem to have now. 

 For me the biggest downside is the debt we would be incurring and trying to evaluate that.  It is true that we might be able to sell our current facility at a good price, but then we would face the question of where to meet until we were ready to raise the money to build and to actually build a facility or the first part of one.   Buying 20 acres and then selling 10 seems to me to be a potentially good option, though we may want to be careful about who we sell to and what their plan for the land is. Nailing down the land now at a good price would give us options in the future that may not be there a few years hence.  All of these are good reasons for us to be seriously considering buying the piece of land we have the option to buy.

I have also wondered if option 1, staying where we are, may provide us an opportunity to engage in ministry in a way that other churches mostly are not doing and to stay in the heart of WL when other churches have left.  I am thinking of both St. Andrews United Methodist (which moved north on Salisbury) and First United Methodist Church (which moved out on State Street/ 26 near Horticultural Park).  In both cases they chose to move to the edge of the city – it is at least worth considering that we could go against this trend by staying where we are and/ or continuing to look for an option that keeps us closer to the heart of WL.  So, when I think about the options, I am trying to imagine how each would shape who we are and what we are able to do.  Of course, in any of the options this is not fully clear, but I believe it is what we must do.     

One phrase that comes to mind for Riverside right now to me is major ministry in minor facilities – that is, we are currently doing a great deal of ministry even though we have a relatively small facility – are we reaching the limit in terms of our ability to do this?  Perhaps we are.  On the other hand, could it be that we are only beginning to fully make use of our building and are we perhaps unique as a fellowship in our ability to make the most of what we have and to stay engaged with the existing parts of WL?  These are some things I’ve been reflecting on recently.

Dave Timmerman

A summary of the discussion from July 18 with more information can be found HERE.

After attending last Sunday’s forum, I began writing down comments to share via the online discussion.   I had typed numerous versions of paragraph after paragraph trying to summarize my feelings on all of the points mentioned at the forum and in previous posts.  Finally, I realized that all I really should address is the core issue that the Lord has put on my heart: our vision of His call for us as church.

While I think we all agree that the Development Committee has located a very reasonable piece of property, our financial decisions must be motivated by God’s will for us as a body and not by a good price.  Wise investment is a type of stewardship, but so is proper debt management.  I believe that Jesus’ words regarding our inability to serve both God and money are particularly pertinent.  I feel that this warning not only applies to those who seek to accrue wealth for themselves, but also to those whose financial management impedes their ability to freely serve the Lord as He commands.  The key here is “as He commands.”  Yes, we should be able to make our payments on the land without a loss in ministry funding and our payments would filter back to other churches through the denomination.  However, I seriously question whether this is how the Lord is calling us to use the funds He has blessed us with.  And I would hope that we would not even consider acquiring this much debt without being sure that it is necessary for God’s purpose for us.   

As John mentioned in his post, life is about choices.  But there is more to our choice than “giving up some ministry today in order to have the ability to take on more ministry in the future.”  To me, the issue is not the amount of ministry that we take on but the style of it.  From what has been discussed, many people seem to be envisioning our church as a place where the community can gather at soccer fields and baseball diamonds and encounter the Lord through the congregation there.  Obviously, such a perspective is going to require more space than our current facility can offer.  An alternative view would be the church as a group of people who reach out to the community in the places where they live, work, and play to share the Lord with them.  This is something that our current facility not only allows, but I would argue, promotes.  The beauty of a church that is bursting at the seams is that it naturally spills over into the community.  I love that a neighbor can’t walk down the sidewalk without actually walking through our annual block party.  I love that homeowners must be scratching their heads in wonder at the cars stretching down the streets on Sunday mornings.  Beyond my own feelings, I would give this up and move on if I thought that God was calling us to, but I don’t think that He is.  We may not be able to invite neighbors to our church to play basketball, but we can certainly go to a public court and build relationships with the people there.  We may not have our own soup kitchen, but there are kitchens and community centers already built and desperate for help.  In my eyes, for the three years that Paul and I have attended Riverside, this is the vision that the church has had.

Some may say that the difference between these perspectives is subtle or even nonexistent.  I believe, however, that they describe two very different churches.  Others may argue that we can put these two views together and minister in both ways.  While I think that elements of both can be incorporated over time, each requires a very different allocation of our resources.  Thus, as we look to make a decision that affects our finances, facilities, and investment of time and energy, one view must take precedence.  Clearly, each decision will have pros and cons.  A new facility will provide more space but less financial flexibility.  The current facility will provide more financial freedom but will require extra work to make the adjustment to two services.  (On this point, I want to note that the transition is something that we all can contribute to, not just leaving it all to staff members.  We are not saying that our staff or congregation should be doing more, but that we are all willing to do more because it aligns with God’s will.)  But in the end, it all boils down to how we are being called, and I think God wants to do something very big with Riverside right here where we are.

In what follows, I have tried to address all of the questions from Sunday's meeting as well as questions some of you have asked me over the past week.  I am sorry it takes so many words, but I wanted to be as complete as I could in my response.  "Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it?"  (Luke 14:28) 

I.          Debt: the 500 pound gorilla.

1.      Covenant Properties will loan us $450,000 (90% of the purchase price of the land) so we will not require a fund raiser.

2.      The loan will be interest only until we are ready to build.  Since our current decision is not about building, I will only discuss the economics of the time period between purchase and either building or the resale of the land.

3.      The interest rate will be 4%.

4.      The annual payment to cover this loan would be $18,000.  The county will be buying 2+ acres from us for the extension of Cumberland Rd.  They will be paying us at least $50,000.  We can use this money to pay down our loan to approximately $400,000.  Divide this number by 52 weeks and our weekly payment would be $307.69.  Divide this by an average attendance of 200 and our per person debt payment would be $1.54 per week.  Notice that if attendance continues to increase, which is our expectation going to two services, the per person cost of the land falls. 

5.      In terms of our total budget, this is about 4%.

6.      The land is currently being rented to a farmer to grow soy beans.  If we want, we can continue this arrangement and use the revenue to help pay our debt.  I would estimate that we could get around $100 per acre per year.

II.        Purchasing the land now will leave us less money for other ministries

1.      The Bible teaches us that life is always about choices.  Spending our time and money on one ministry will necessarily leave us with less time and money for others.  However, in making wise choices do not be mislead by false or incomplete arguments.

2.      We are not “giving up other ministries.”  We are giving up some ministry today in order to have the ability to take on more ministry in the future.  For example, if we as a church decide that children and families are our ministry, the land purchase will mean that we have fewer resources today in promise land, nursery, and youth ministry.  However, 2 or 3 years from now we would have more class rooms, more playgrounds, more soccer and baseball fields to reach out to more families and children.

3.      Also, note that every dollar we pay back on our debt goes to Covenant Properties, the financial arm of our denomination.  It does not go to commercial bankers.  The dollars we pay back go directly to helping other churches in their ministries.  We are actually doing ministry now with the dollars we pay back on our debt.

4.      Sunday, it was suggested that we could plant another church rather than buy property.  In some sense, that is exactly what our debt payment is doing; helping another Covenant church get started.  Not only are we buying property for our own growth, but we are helping other churches get planted.

5.      If every attendee of Riverside will agree to increase their weekly giving by $1.54 (over and above what they would give ordinarily) we will not have to decrease any ministry are Riverside.

III.       Stay here in our current facility and “fill in the void” left by other churches that have moved outside the city.

1.      First, there is no void or absence of churches in West Lafayette.  There are over a dozen churches, other than Riverside, in West Lafayette.

2.      Undoubtedly the churches that moved out of the city did so because they thought they could do more and better ministry in a new location, with more land and building.  Perhaps this is telling us something about our own decision.

3.      When the churches moved out of the city, their buildings did not remain empty.  Other churches moved in to fill the “void.”  When the Church of Christ moved out of our current facility, we moved in.  The Chinese Alliance Church has already indicated that they would like to purchase our current facilities (both buildings) when and if we decide to move out to the new property.

IV.       The purchase of the land by our church will contribute to “urban sprawl” and take out some of our natural environment.

1.      Genesis 1:28.  God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.”  Urban sprawl is an inevitable consequence of population growth.

2.      In bidding for this land, our competitors were land developers.  If we do not buy this land, it will soon be a housing project of some sort or another.  Just look at the surrounding properties.  They are either already developed or in the planning stages.

3.      If we purchase this land, it would probably have one building, our church, some parking and the rest will be green space; trees and flowers we plant, playgrounds, soccer fields.  Our purchase of the land will actually reduce urban sprawl and increase the green space.  If we decide, in the future, to not build on the land and stay here or go to another location, we can sell the land with conditions on how it will be used or developed.

V.        Stay in our current location and be “The Little Church that Could.”

1.      This is comparable to saying that our current staff and congregation are not working hard enough in their ministries.  Sure, would could go to 3 services each Sunday and have 2 VBSs.  However, this is much easier said than done. 

2.      In the production of anything, from automobiles to corn, we must utilize our resources, land, labor and physical equipment like buildings.  Production can usually be increased by increasing one or more of these inputs.  They can also be substituted for one another.  We can grow more corn by using more land and less labor, or more fertilizer and less land.  We can increase our ministry in our current land and building by going to two services, but clearly this increases the demand on our staff and volunteers.  At some point, it is less costly to increase the land and buildings, taking the stress off our people. 

3.      One of the major reasons we moved out of the school gym and bought our current facility is we were afraid we were “burning out” our set up crew.  This group of men and women came to the gym every Sunday morning, at least two hours before worship service began, and set up hundreds of folding chairs, a sound system, several childrens’ classrooms and coffee and donuts.  Then, one hour later, when the service was over, they would work until everything was packed up into our trailer and store it for another week.  Six years later, we thought it time to move on to a church that we could have 24/7.

VI.       We are in a recession and a time of great economic uncertainty.  This will increase the risk of buying land now.

1.      There is risk in everything.  If God had wanted us to live in a world with no risk, He would have given us perfect information about the future.  Risk is unavoidable.  You cannot eliminate it from our lives, but you can choose to some extent the type of risk you want.

2.      The recession has done two things.  It has increased the uncertainty about the future value of property, thus increasing the risk of the land purchase.  It has lowered the price of property and the interest rates, thus lowering the risk of the land purchase.  The two effects have probably cancelled each other out.

3.      This particular land that we are considering is probably less risky than most other properties in W.L.  To illustrate, if we buy one acre of land today at $25,000 and finance it at 4% interest, one year from today if that acre is worth $26,001, we have made a profit on the purchase.  When the new Cumberland Rd is completed, it will almost certainly increase the market value of this property by more than the interest rate. 

4.      Purdue Research Foundation owns much of the land in the areas where we have looked for property.  I spoke with their property manager about selling us land in the same area as this parcel.  He said they did own much of the land on this side of town and they would be willing to sell us some, but not now.  They wanted to wait until the new roads were completed because they were sure this would increase the value of the land significantly.

5.      As our current legislature continues to spend money it does not have, our Federal Reserve has increased the rate at which it creates dollars.  Historically, in the U.S. (as well as every country in the world), when the central bank significantly increases the money supply, there will be inflation as the value of a dollar falls.  It is not wise to hold onto dollars when inflation is expected.  Land (or other real assets) offer us good protection against inflation.

VII.     Now is not the right time.  Let’s wait and buy land sometime in the future.

1.      See points 2 – 5 in VI above.  Now is probably the best time to convert our dollars into land.  The land we are considering is a particularly good investment due to the construction of the new roads, State Rd 231 and the new Cumberland.

2.      We will probably be in our current facility for at least 2 more years.  In the future, when it comes time to make a decision to build a new facility, if we have found a better location, we can sell this property and buy the more preferred land.

Hi everyone! I've appreciated the thoughtful discussion thats happening here!  My thoughts echo what alot of other's have raised, but here they are!

- I wonder how Riverside's current location connects with our mission, and, more specifically, how moving further from campus might affect our understanding of who and how we're called to minister. Ofcourse there are alot of great ministries happening on campus, but it does seem to me like Riverside fits a niche  (contemporary, evangelical, casual, inter-generational,  minutes from campus, etc) that would be missing if we left the current site.   In addition to reaching students, one thing I've loved as we've gotten to know our neighbors (we live 1/2 mile away!) is that Riverside is very accesible to them (younger, non-religious, University affiliated families), in a way that even the slightly longer drive to the new site, would not be.  Ofcourse, I know people who live in the Klondike area might make the same arguement in favor of the move, but I figure its up to me to speak for my neighbors!  :)   

- I wonder if having smaller facilities (the current site) might force us to be more out in the community- meeting in coffee shops, over lunch, or getting creative about our space, etc- in a way that increases our actual presence in the community and challenges people's expectations about what Church is all about. 

- My last concern is financial, at first I thought the land was a great deal, and I thought we could always sell it later.  But, then I started to wonder what would happen if we invested the amount we would pay on the loan in a few of our key ministires, although our "return" wouldn't be necesarily financial, in a kingdom-sense, it might have a greater impact than the land of even a new building, would.

~Thanks!  Emily Umulis

I do not think that it is wise for a church without a current mission statement or vision for the use of the land to make an investment of this size. Given the current economy, great deal that this land truly is, I do not think it is too good too pass up. Without discerning God's will for our church generally, I would caution us to think we are discerning it specifically. It certainly isn't impossible, of course. And God can turn even our biggest mistakes into victories for Himself--and that's a bad scenario that I am not claiming we are in yet. But I just don't see the harm in waiting another six months so we can get our vision as a church on the same page (I do see harm in delaying it indefinitely or more than six months, for example). If we had a solid vision for the church and a general idea of what we wanted with the land I'd think this would be a great deal. I think something similar will arise in the future. I also am confident the Leadership Team, which is already trying to discover God's mission for our church, will have a great vision and mission statement ready for us in the coming months. All of this coming from a guy who would be able to walk to this new property every Sunday and who believes our current facility is inadequate. Please wait. Just a little while. Support our talented and gifted leadership as they come up with a great vision for us to discuss, vote on and support. Then let's move or take steps towards moving. Heck--maybe it can be a Christmas Present, or a kick off to the New Year.